Looks Like DC drops the ball with Milestone.

[leonmallett]

It looks like DC is only concentrating on Static for the moment.

Well... here's hoping that Static at least becomes big enough that he can serve as a gateway character (with a possible gateway series) for the other Milestone characters.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ewaySeries

How big does Static have to get? Maybe a top-rated TV show? No?

Plans for a Static monthly were scrapped by DC last spring. Based on their actions, they never really wanted to publish the Milestone stuff, they wasted my time. We could have done a little deal for them to use Static without me having to spend so much money on lawyers.

I hope that once Milestone can be extricated from DC you find a worthy home for the characters - perhaps as an Image book or approaching Dark Horse maybe?

It was nice to see the Xombi/Spectre team-up by John Rozum, but on the whole the characters have been overlooked.

DC are planning to launch the pulp characters they have licensed with a couple of titles in a similar way to the Red Circle launch. I guess the same would follow for THUNDER Agents since DC seem to be establishing a blueprint for this kind of thing - except where Milestone is concerned. Yet Milestone published more discrete issues on its own than say the 1980's Red Circle, !mpact, the handful of Archie's Weid Mysteries with those super-heroes, and THUNDER Agents (including the 1980's revivals and Dynamo and No-Man books) all combined. Yet with that profile and the benefit of the related cartoon the Red Crircle characters and THUNDER Agents are seen as a safer bet? Hmmm.

I am sorry they have wasted your time Dwayne, and I am sorry they have been so disrespectful to you and to this group of characters. And I am sorry that they have raised the hopes of so many fans of Milestone with these shenanigans.

[Tony Isabella]

Call me cynical, but I still think the main reason DC makes deals to publish characters like the Milestone characters, the Archie super-heroes, Doc Savage, etc. is to keep someone else from publishing them. They already get their butts kicked by the Marvel super-heroes and they don't want any more competition.

Tony Isabella

[jmkprime]

Personally, I think it looks like they're assembling a larger and larger catalogue of reprint material for the book store market. These deals give a ready source of reprint material without having to first go through the hassle of publishing new material to the direct market.

[kick]

How big does Static have to get? Maybe a top-rated TV show? No?

I meant in terms of current fans and/or people who didn't watch the show.

Static Shock currently runs on Disney XD four times a day. I know that's somehow not as good as appearing in Teen Titans, a comic with over 20 thousand readers, but I'm not sure why.

There's still the problem of current comics readers who aren't watching it or don't even know about it for some reason. For one, there were the Milestone fans who either avoided it or complained about it because they thought it was too watered down and changed from the original comics. And myself, although I'm a huge Static Shock fan (the show even got me into Milestone), I really wish we would have gotten a second animated series more closer to the original comics. Another thing is that some people avoided it because they thought it, Teen Titans and the Zeta Project were too "kiddie" and not up to the caliber of shows like JL/JLU and Batman: TAS. I'm still having trouble getting DCAU fans to watch SS because of that perception. For what it's worth, all the celebrity guest appearances probably didn't help, and that's one of the biggest complaints about it I've seen. In fact, that complaint is even listed on the show's TV Tropes page:

"In later seasons, the show got a little schizophrenic in tone. It became too guest-star happy, even going so far as to name an episode "Static Shaq". The show also became more and more child-oriented and divergent from its source as time went on. (The lowest point was having a Five Man Band of NBA Basketball players put on super-suits and act as superheroes, with secret identities, just as if they didn't have paparazzi following them every minute of the day.) Where Did They Get Lasers was in full effect by the later seasons (to the point of being used by standard police officers), and the show developed a nasty habit of vehemently Anvilicious aesops. At the same time, almost all traces of gang warfare and other urban issues were dropped, in favor of having Static go up against some metahuman or teaming up with another superhero every week."

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StaticShock

...though I disagree on the part about fighting metahumans and superhero team-ups (I also don't think Static was overpowered either). And going further, a number of the DCAU fans who have watched SS only watched the episodes with the DCAU crossovers. There's still also others who avoided it just due to the Lil' Romeo theme. On top of that, there's Static Shock fans and watchers who don't even know that Static is currently a member of the Teen Titans ("Static's in the Titans? Really??"... I keep reading hearing/reading that all the time), and I suspect some of them may be ones who don't even read comics. The fact that not many of the other Milestone characters appeared in Static Shock also didn't help in terms of their popularity. The ones that did (i.e. Hotstreak, Aquamaria, etc.) were either altered (though I like the cartoon version of Hot-streak better) or Black Vulcan'd. Constant appearances in the cartoon with them being close as possible to their comic versions would have helped their popularity a great deal. But bottom line: Static (and the other Milestone characters) needs more media penetration, period (including more cartoons). Static also needs to be appearing in shows like Smallville and Batman: Brave and the Bold. Static's appearance in JLU was a good idea. He (especially younger Static) should have appeared in more episodes.

One thing I've noticed about the comics industry is that people mainly only buy comics that feature the iconic characters or franchises (i.e. Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, JLA, X-Men, JSA, Fantastic Four, etc) or are written by superstar writers (i.e. Johns, Morisson, Bendis, JMS, Busiek, Gaiman, Giffen, Mark Waid, etc.). Basically, aside from those 'iconic' characters, people only follow big-name/star creators. That's why Booster Gold had such a high level of sales when Geoff Johns was co-writing it and is still doing somewhat okay (Giffen). And Thor definitely wouldn't have sold as well as it did without JMS. If a book does not fall under at least of the two criteria listed above, it either fail or slowly circle the drain towards cancellation. Take Blade. The character has headlined three successful movies, but any comic title he gets keeps getting cancelled. People keep saying they want new things or they want this and that, but when new and innovative titles are released, they end up getting cancelled because no one bought them. Instead people keep buying the same ol' SHIT. You know how how many complaints and negative reviews I read about New Avengers? Why is it selling so high? Some of my favorite new titles (including Blue Beetle, Firestorm, Shadowpact, Nextwave and Captain Britain and MI: 13 to name a few) have all been cancelled due to low sales. I keep hoping these titles continue and when thing like that happens, it really pisses me off. So basically, since Static and the other Milestone characters are not as "iconic" as Spider-Man, the only route left is a big-name/superstar creator. And given all the creator interviews on new projects, one thing I've learned is that a lot of creators are on those projects because of personal interest in them.

The reason DC licensed the MLJ/Red Circle characters in the first place is that when they were courting JMS, that's one of the main things he had an interest in working on. There's still a problem since JMS isn't behind the entire launch of the Red Circle characters (like in the manner of Johns and Blackest Knight). Apparently, DC probably thought they could launch the (non-JMS penned) ongoings using JMS' buzz to their advantage. But I don't think those books are going to succeed by themselves off of JMS' shine alone without JMS directly writing them. So aside from the specific stories JMS is writing, it looks like that Red Circle endeavor is still going to fail. Still the Red Circle stuff was licensed in the first place due to Straczynski's interest.

Shit, the reason even freaking Magog (I mean, really? REALLY???) is getting his own ongoing is because of interest from Keith Giffen. That's also the reason Doom Patrol is making a return in their own book.

Also, the reason DC was chasing after Static was because Geoff Johns had a strong interest in him during his Teen Titans run and then, Sean McKeever wanted to write Static during his run. In fact, Static was one of McKeever's prerequisites before taking the job. Unfortunately, I'm beginning to think the main reason DC licensed the Milestone stuff in the first place was mainly so they can get to work with Static (with hope the that they can use some of the Milestone characters here and there for him to play off of). Given what you said about Felicia having supposed to have been lined up for a Static ongoing, I'm thinking one of the main reasons she was chosen to write Teen Titans was because of Static. Currently, there are Teen Titans readers going "I never watched his cartoon, but he seems interesting I'll wait and see what they do with him." That's why I hope Felicia can build him up and make him a big player. And not just Teen Titans, but in guest appearances in a lot of other DCU titles (similar to what they did/are doing with Jaime Reyes).

Speaking of Jaime, I was pretty disappointed to read that Static was supposed to get his own book but then it got shelved. But now I'm thinking that maybe DC was probably trying to avoid the same thing that happened with Blue Beetle's book (again... no iconic character, not penned by a star writer). I'm not sure, but from what you said, did this take place from around the time of Blue Beetle's cancellation? All in all, If Static is going to get his own book, a repeat of that needs to be prevented from happening. I'd hate to be all into the book's plot and characters only to have it be cancelled at issue #30 or something. I hated how Blue Beetle was cancelled prematurely. Apparently, this is probably one of the reasons they're going to give Virgil focus in Teen Titans. Hopefully, this will lead to Virgil getting his own co-feature and then from there, his own ongoing.

And speaking of Teen Titans, therein lies another problem. Static should have debuted and joined the team much earlier, say during the early Johns run or even the later PAD run on Young Justice near the end of that book. As it is, right now the book is sucking and it's at it's lowest point, with readers continually dropping it. One of the complaints is that the writing quality hasn't been on par with Johns' run since he left the book. Another constant complaint is that, minus Wonder Girl, three of the Big 4 (i.e. Kon-El, Tim Drake and Bart Allen) are gone from the book. If Static had been introduced earlier, his name most likely would have been included in that group of favorites (making them a Big 5). Hopefully, (if editorial would let her) Felicia can fix that book writing-wise.

BTW, I'm also thinking that if Static had shown up in the DCU earlier, they wouldn't have needed to create Jaime Reyes.

Still, there's something to be said about creator interest. You need to converse with these creators and have discussions on why they would like to work with or what would interest them about these characters. Imagine what Gail or Morrison could do with the Bang Baby concept. Didn't the show imply that due to the nature of the gas, the Big Bang tended to makes a number of the Bang Babies unstable. The same goes for a couple of Bang Babies that were in the books. Something could be done with that. Also, didn't Kurt Busiek write an issue of Static once, as well as an issue of Icon & Rocket? Maybe you could team up with him and get him to pitch a Busiek-penned Static or Icon series? Going further, imagine Joe Casey on a Shadow Cabinet ongoing. I think you need to have a talk with Gail, Kurt and Morrison... and maybe even Johns.

I'm not sure about Gail (and that's pretty sad, because a writer of her caliber should really have more pull), but if Morrison wants to do it, you'd best believe they'll fucking do it. What this all boils down to is that these characters need interest from big-name creators. Still, the rest these characters should be getting minis to test the waters at least. Once again, you might have to converse with some of the creators so they can push some ideas forward.

[Geoff Thorne]

If my understanding is right (and I'm not privy to anything but what's been written here and on the original McDuffie boards) it seems the deal Milestone has with DC only covers the ORIGINAL Milestone characters and settings. Dakota, Icon, Xombi, etc.

Why not do MIlestone 2.0?

New city. New heroes. New flavor. New deal.

Publish through IMAGE, one or two titles at a time, building up a new fan base (and bringing back the original ones).

Kirkman has a little fiefdom going on over there.

MILESTONE
Noun
1. a stone pillar that shows the distance [in miles] to or from a place
2. a significant event in a life or history.

Setting aside the strictest technical meaning of definition #1, BOTH of these would apply to MIlestone 2.0

I bet you could put together a new stable of creators in no time flat.

[kick]

I came across a couple of interesting quotes on the DCboard.

What was the point of hyping up the inclusion of Milestone Characters if Didio had no plans to use them? Seriously, I'm starting to get the feeling that Didio only wanted to Static, but McDuffie made it so all of the Milestone Characters had to be included.

From a practical point of view, I think it would be better if the characters were handled in a group rather than individually. Once you break them up and sell them off individually, you wind up with situations where one company might own one set of characters and another a different set, with no possibilities that the twain shall meet. Which is probably what McDuffie was trying to avoid.

It sounds like they're really looking at doing a Static story in the near future, and then trying to spin him off. I'd say, if you want to see the other Milestone characters, work on getting Static his own series and prove that the Milestone concepts are viable, and then see about getting the others. Because right now, new characters (or even new interpretations of old characters, ie the "Red Circle" bunch) aren't doing too well and are a BIG risk for DC.

http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thre ... 5&tstart=0

Any thoughts?

[Dwayne McDuffie]

There's still the problem of current comics readers who aren't watching it or don't even know about it for some reason. For one, there were the Milestone fans who either avoided it or complained about it because they thought it was too watered down and changed from the original comics. And myself, although I'm a huge Static Shock fan (the show even got me into Milestone), I really wish we would have gotten a second animated series more closer to the original comics. Another thing is that some people avoided it because they thought it, Teen Titans and the Zeta Project were too "kiddie" and not up to the caliber of shows like JL/JLU and Batman: TAS. I'm still having trouble getting DCAU fans to watch SS because of that perception. For what it's worth, all the celebrity guest appearances probably didn't help, and that's one of the biggest complaints about it I've seen. In fact, that complaint is even listed on the show's TV Tropes page:

"In later seasons, the show got a little schizophrenic in tone. It became too guest-star happy, even going so far as to name an episode "Static Shaq". The show also became more and more child-oriented and divergent from its source as time went on. (The lowest point was having a Five Man Band of NBA Basketball players put on super-suits and act as superheroes, with secret identities, just as if they didn't have paparazzi following them every minute of the day.) Where Did They Get Lasers was in full effect by the later seasons (to the point of being used by standard police officers), and the show developed a nasty habit of vehemently Anvilicious aesops. At the same time, almost all traces of gang warfare and other urban issues were dropped, in favor of having Static go up against some metahuman or teaming up with another superhero every week."

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StaticShock

...though I disagree on the part about fighting metahumans and superhero team-ups (I also don't think Static was overpowered either). And going further, a number of the DCAU fans who have watched SS only watched the episodes with the DCAU crossovers. There's still also others who avoided it just due to the Lil' Romeo theme. On top of that, there's Static Shock fans and watchers who don't even know that Static is currently a member of the Teen Titans ("Static's in the Titans? Really??"... I keep reading hearing/reading that all the time), and I suspect some of them may be ones who don't even read comics. The fact that not many of the other Milestone characters appeared in Static Shock also didn't help in terms of their popularity. The ones that did (i.e. Hotstreak, Aquamaria, etc.) were either altered (though I like the cartoon version of Hot-streak better) or Black Vulcan'd. Constant appearances in the cartoon with them being close as possible to their comic versions would have helped their popularity a great deal. But bottom line: Static (and the other Milestone characters) needs more media penetration, period (including more cartoons). Static also needs to be appearing in shows like Smallville and Batman: Brave and the Bold. Static's appearance in JLU was a good idea. He (especially younger Static) should have appeared in more episodes.

One thing I've noticed about the comics industry is that people mainly only buy comics that feature the iconic characters or franchises (i.e. Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, JLA, X-Men, JSA, Fantastic Four, etc) or are written by superstar writers (i.e. Johns, Morisson, Bendis, JMS, Busiek, Gaiman, Giffen, Mark Waid, etc.). Basically, aside from those 'iconic' characters, people only follow big-name/star creators. That's why Booster Gold had such a high level of sales when Geoff Johns was co-writing it and is still doing somewhat okay (Giffen). And Thor definitely wouldn't have sold as well as it did without JMS. If a book does not fall under at least of the two criteria listed above, it either fail or slowly circle the drain towards cancellation. Take Blade. The character has headlined three successful movies, but any comic title he gets keeps getting cancelled. People keep saying they want new things or they want this and that, but when new and innovative titles are released, they end up getting cancelled because no one bought them. Instead people keep buying the same ol' SHIT. You know how how many complaints and negative reviews I read about New Avengers? Why is it selling so high? Some of my favorite new titles (including Blue Beetle, Firestorm, Shadowpact, Nextwave and Captain Britain and MI: 13 to name a few) have all been cancelled due to low sales. I keep hoping these titles continue and when thing like that happens, it really pisses me off. So basically, since Static and the other Milestone characters are not as "iconic" as Spider-Man, the only route left is a big-name/superstar creator. And given all the creator interviews on new projects, one thing I've learned is that a lot of creators are on those projects because of personal interest in them.

The reason DC licensed the MLJ/Red Circle characters in the first place is that when they were courting JMS, that's one of the main things he had an interest in working on. There's still a problem since JMS isn't behind the entire launch of the Red Circle characters (like in the manner of Johns and Blackest Knight). Apparently, DC probably thought they could launch the (non-JMS penned) ongoings using JMS' buzz to their advantage. But I don't think those books are going to succeed by themselves off of JMS' shine alone without JMS directly writing them. So aside from the specific stories JMS is writing, it looks like that Red Circle endeavor is still going to fail. Still the Red Circle stuff was licensed in the first place due to Straczynski's interest.

Shit, the reason even freaking Magog (I mean, really? REALLY???) is getting his own ongoing is because of interest from Keith Giffen. That's also the reason Doom Patrol is making a return in their own book.

Also, the reason DC was chasing after Static was because Geoff Johns had a strong interest in him during his Teen Titans run and then, Sean McKeever wanted to write Static during his run. In fact, Static was one of McKeever's prerequisites before taking the job. Unfortunately, I'm beginning to think the main reason DC licensed the Milestone stuff in the first place was mainly so they can get to work with Static (with hope the that they can use some of the Milestone characters here and there for him to play off of). Given what you said about Felicia having supposed to have been lined up for a Static ongoing, I'm thinking one of the main reasons she was chosen to write Teen Titans was because of Static. Currently, there are Teen Titans readers going "I never watched his cartoon, but he seems interesting I'll wait and see what they do with him." That's why I hope Felicia can build him up and make him a big player. And not just Teen Titans, but in guest appearances in a lot of other DCU titles (similar to what they did/are doing with Jaime Reyes).

Speaking of Jaime, I was pretty disappointed to read that Static was supposed to get his own book but then it got shelved. But now I'm thinking that maybe DC was probably trying to avoid the same thing that happened with Blue Beetle's book (again... no iconic character, not penned by a star writer). I'm not sure, but from what you said, did this take place from around the time of Blue Beetle's cancellation? All in all, If Static is going to get his own book, a repeat of that needs to be prevented from happening. I'd hate to be all into the book's plot and characters only to have it be cancelled at issue #30 or something. I hated how Blue Beetle was cancelled prematurely. Apparently, this is probably one of the reasons they're going to give Virgil focus in Teen Titans. Hopefully, this will lead to Virgil getting his own co-feature and then from there, his own ongoing.

And speaking of Teen Titans, therein lies another problem. Static should have debuted and joined the team much earlier, say during the early Johns run or even the later PAD run on Young Justice near the end of that book. As it is, right now the book is sucking and it's at it's lowest point, with readers continually dropping it. One of the complaints is that the writing quality hasn't been on par with Johns' run since he left the book. Another constant complaint is that, minus Wonder Girl, three of the Big 4 (i.e. Kon-El, Tim Drake and Bart Allen) are gone from the book. If Static had been introduced earlier, his name most likely would have been included in that group of favorites (making them a Big 5). Hopefully, (if editorial would let her) Felicia can fix that book writing-wise.

BTW, I'm also thinking that if Static had shown up in the DCU earlier, they wouldn't have needed to create Jaime Reyes.

Still, there's something to be said about creator interest. You need to converse with these creators and have discussions on why they would like to work with or what would interest them about these characters. Imagine what Gail or Morrison could do with the Bang Baby concept. Didn't the show imply that due to the nature of the gas, the Big Bang tended to makes a number of the Bang Babies unstable. The same goes for a couple of Bang Babies that were in the books. Something could be done with that. Also, didn't Kurt Busiek write an issue of Static once, as well as an issue of Icon & Rocket? Maybe you could team up with him and get him to pitch a Busiek-penned Static or Icon series? Going further, imagine Joe Casey on a Shadow Cabinet ongoing. I think you need to have a talk with Gail, Kurt and Morrison... and maybe even Johns.

I'm not sure about Gail (and that's pretty sad, because a writer of her caliber should really have more pull), but if Morrison wants to do it, you'd best believe they'll fucking do it. What this all boils down to is that these characters need interest from big-name creators. Still, the rest these characters should be getting minis to test the waters at least. Once again, you might have to converse with some of the creators so they can push some ideas forward.

So DC doesn't want to do a Static comic because Static Shock had too many guest stars. Got it. And if you knew the caliber of creators who asked to work on new Milestone comics after the announcement that they would be in the DCU, you wouldn't have bothered to write all of that.

[kick]

So DC doesn't want to do a Static comic because Static Shock had too many guest stars. Got it.

Actually, I listed that as one of the reasons why some potential readers didn't watch the show. People seemed to have a major gripe about that. Though I didn't have a problem with it myself.

And if you knew the caliber of creators who asked to work on new Milestone comics after the announcement that they would be in the DCU, you wouldn't have bothered to write all of that.

Did you ask them to make pitches to editorial directly? Was one of them Busiek, especially since he's worked on MIlestone stories in the past? We need people like him to submit pitches.

Also, do these creators have pull? Are they "I'll buy whatever they write as long as their name is on it" types? Keep in mind they have to more than just great writers. There have been critically acclaimed books with high-quality writers that have still gotten cancelled because no one read them. For example, even though I think Bendis is decent at times, IMO he's crap compared to Tomasi. But who do you think would sell better, Bendis or Tomasi? Also, Bendis is more likely to have whatever he wants green-lighted.

I think it's a crime that Loeb can sell more than Gail Simone, but that's what happens. (Please don't put Loeb on a Milestone book)

[Geoff Thorne]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and just assume Dwayne knows what he's doing.

It's a risk, I know, but I'm brave like that.

[Hypestyle]

(based on comments elsewhere in the webiverse)--

“nothing personal– just business..” riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight… corporate ultra-apologists slay me.. why go throught he rigmarole of licensing an entire line of characters, when, effectively, DC was only just interested in one? Arguably, because that would prevent Milestone from publishing the characters elsewhere, if they’re locked into a years-long contract where DC has the first right of refusal.. whoops..

the DC universe is “crowded enough.. complicated enough”… okay, so why the heck are the Red Circle characters getting a major push?

Mr. McDuffie’s only sin is being frank when everyone else is expected to just shut up to get along.. people say they hate political correctness, but being honest when you feel disrespected is “whining”– whatever–

I wonder how long will it be before we see on the message boards, fandudes carping “bleh, I never liked/always hated Milestone/ never saw what the big deal was—‘whoo, we’ve got black heroes! They hit white villains!’ how about just creating quality heroes, not PC clones of other heroes, or stories where it’s just throwing race in people’s face?” Internet flameage continues..